Any opinions on the Maddock Versatool?

[speedy]

http://www.maddockcorp.com/VersaTool.html

http://www.maddockcorp.com/112-1250_IMG.JPG

We need something with good (self) mobility, we have lots of in-town moves for short stretches, and having to load a machine would involve too much cost. A unit with a truck-loading conveyor would be ideal, but the ability to move quickly trumps that, I think.

The ability to do stabilization would be a plus as well.

The small wheels on some units might be a hinderance with some of the potholed sections we encounter and tracks kill the mobility. Wheels might place too much load in some ares and break through as well. not many options, I guess.

What do you guys think?

[milling_drum]

Wirtgen make a nice 4ft (tracked) machine. Stabilization is possible with them by lifting the rear scraper board completely up and leaving the material in place. They also have a folding conveyor option I believe.

Looks like the machine you are looking for depends on how good your operators are. The Maddock machine looks like it might work well.

[Buster F]

We occasionally sub work to a company out of PA that has a couple of Gallion graders that have been upfitted with milling drums. I have never seen them used in a mainline cut - only as a trimmer. I suspect that the main reason they don't use them on mainline is the lack of a conveyor - the material that is left behind not only will need to be picked up and loaded by another machine, it will also be driven over by the rear wheels during the pass thus making precise grade control and matching the zero side very difficult. I would think that any time you may gain by not having the trailer move would be lost on the clean-up/touch-ups. As Milling drum suggested - take a look at the Wirtgen 1200. We had one of these on a longterm rental and found it quite versitile - and the mobility was pretty impressive as well. Good luck, Roy

[speedy]

As i see it, automatic grade controls take care of the variations caused by driving over the remaining material. Our crews are multi-taskers and they would stick around to assist in the next stage of work....to a point, but then they'd have to move on to the next jobsite, which may be across town. We tend to skip around alot, depending on priorities and time available to complete a particular job. So mobility is HUGE. No point in having a slow-poke machine that needs to be hauled.

The one downside I see is the lack of a pick-up conveyor, having to clean up after it is a pain, not that a machine with a conveyor leaves the milled area work-ready, but it would be better to remove the bulk of it and leave it sweeper-ready for the follow-up crew.

I've read a news release that says that a loading conveyor is available, but talking with dave Maddock, he indicates that isn't the case. I would really like to see one in action, (in person or video, even) it's getting to the point where a decision will have to be made to jump into it, or sub it out.

[speedy]

UPDATE!!!

They've only built a couple of them since 2002 or 2003. They've been concentrating on their grader milling attachment, and more recently the larger tow-behind unit. But they now have a contract with virginia DOT to develop a Versatool with a pick-up conveyor. I guess it's a wait and see thing.

[milling_drum]

It would make sense if somebody spent time trying to develop a sweeping unit WITH a conveyor....

[bean]

My company owns 2 older Gallion milling machines both with front folding conveyors for loading trucks but they don't work that great. The grader design is also poor for any kind of curb work or sharp turns. The sensors located on the drum endplates work very well and there is also slope controls that can be purchased. They are very fast moving when walking from job to job but also have huge blind spots.

The interesting feature I found is the entire drum housing can be moved side to side while in the cut from the cab or ground man control box like in the maddock photo

[speedy]

Bean, do you have any pictures of those units? I'd like to see some, especially if they are in operation. I've never seen the Gallions with mills, much less attached conveyors.

[milling_drum]

Those must be some OLD mofos...PLEASE get us some pictures!!

[bean]

the 5 foot unit is in service but is out of province but i will see if i can get a picture the other 1.5 foot (i think it was) is sitting around with no drum currently i will get a picture of it this week. both units are new to "us" 2 or 3 years ago.

They both have detroit engines I believe and the drums are drivin by hydraulics and have w25 gear boxes.

We have never really used the conveyor for loading trucks but for placing material to the side and pulverizing they seem to work not bad.

[Toegrinder]

It would make sense if somebody spent time trying to develop a sweeping unit WITH a conveyor....

they have actually been around for awhile now :D

[milling_drum]

Good to have you around here Toe Grinder.

Last month I saw one for the first time in Bismark, South Dakota, a company called Mariner was using it on city streets. For all the years I spent losing money working in FL/GA/MS/AL/NC milling and watching the horror show called clean up....they could have saved themselves alot of headaches by purchasing such a unit....

[Toegrinder]

I always thought the same thing, until I saw a kickbroom last year with a conveyor, pretty cool to watch. I also worked for a major sweeping company during an off season a couple years ago, we converted some old tractor they had into a pickup broom with two gutter brooms on each side and a conveyor. It would sweep a 12 ft pass. I'm not sure how to post pics yet but here is the link, the pic is at the bottom.

http://candssweeping.com/home.php

[milling_drum]

Nice Company...bet they make a few dollars sweeping for the mills too.

Not long ago comming through Wyoming, I saw a pull behind broom that musta been at least 12ft wide. They were cleaning up a chip seal job with it.

[indy 500]

save yourself about 250k, find an old galion. Thats what maddock copied for his machine. As a matter of fact it was my galion rp60 he measured to build his own. Watch out for his grader attachment too, I've seen two that indot bought that haven't measured up to the galion. Don't get me wrong, I wish these machines were still be produced, but it's hard to justify 300k for such a low production machine.

[speedy]

I just found that SAKAI manufactures a heavy rubber tired mill. They build a high quality machine too. it would be nice to see them bring it to North America.

http://www.sakainet.co.jp/english/catalog/e_er551f.html

[indy 500]

just looked at the saki specs, must say i'm impressed. Have any idea on price?
The saki looks like my galion sp600, but has more weight and power, which would be a major plus. The biggest problem we have with the rubber tire machines is the bounce. This was not a problem ten years ago, but with todays density specs some roads are just too hard for rubber tired machines. After the first day with my first track machine(rx-500) I vowed never to go back to tires.

[indy 500]

try to get you some pics of these dinosaurs(galions) in action.

[speedy]

There's a fellow in another town nearby with a Dresser rubber-tired mill, I suspect that it is essentially a Gallion. Did Dresser buy Gallion? I've never seen it in operation, but it sure looks big. The Sakai, looks much the same, except for the Sakai has tandem in the back.

[indy 500]

Dresser did buy galion, then kamatsu bought dresser. Every galion with a conveyor that I have seen bears the dresser name. My only machine cutting today was a galion sp600(5'drum with conveyor). It was a small mill&fill job.
Max speed in a 2" cut was 40fpm. Just glad there was no profilograph, would have failed. The grade control could hardly keep up with the bounce. I don't think the smaller grader tires(like whats on the saki) would have this problem.

[speedy]

You mentioned weight being an issue, would filling the tires with ballast such as calcium chloride solution or even water or I've heard of some people buying RV anitfreeze in bulk if they need the weight in winter, it's not caustic like CC in case of a tire puncture (environmental concerns) and subsequent leak, whereas with water, you'd have to drain in the winter.

With much of the tire's internal volume displaced by a liquid which is non-compressible, it removes a lot of the ability for the tire to flex and bounce. While still allowing the tire to maintain a good contact patch with the ground.

Or would the added weight be a huge detriment for mobilization, or soft sub-grade conditions under the remaining layer of asphalt.