Need a new site Laser

[Squizzy246B]

I have a basic model David White site Laser that has been a terriffic piece of kit. I'm looking to get another so I can keep the DW in my truck for quoting and estimating while the guys are working on site.

The usual suspects emerge, Topcon, Rugby Leica etc. Whats the thoughts on a 300 yard basic self levelling site laser. I only use the gradients settings a few time s a year. Being somewhat weather resistant is a necessity.

I might add that the accuracy of the unit has to be spot on...we work to tolerance of an 1/8th of an inch and less at times, although this is not usually at major distances.

[Kgmz]

We have 3 rotary lasers now. And I have rented or been loaned Topcons, Leicas, and newer than what we have Spectra Precisions.

We own:

Spectra Precision L600, basic rotary laser with 2000' range, 1/16th at 100'

CST Berger LM800, dual slope laser with 2000' range, 1/16th at 100'

CST Berger ALGR, dual slope laser with 2800' range, 1/16th at 100'


I bought the CST LM800 a year or two ago when I needed a laser while we had to wait for parts for our Spectra L600, The repair shop loaned me a Leica Rugby 100LR for a couple of weeks.


Here is where I bought the CST LM800
http://www.engineersupply.com/cst-berger-lasermark-electronic-self-leveling-dual-slope-rotary-laser-complete-package-57-lm800pkg.aspx


I bought this since the specs were good and equal to a Leica, Topcon, etc. for less than half the price of the others. And came with all the extras, tripod, rod, and othe things. This laser has been great and has been run side by side with the Leica, and a couple of other lasers, and is just as accurate.


Last year I bought the CST ALGR. I needed another laser with a slope and stepped up a few more dollars for this one. Came in a kit with all the goodies like the LM800, tripod, rod, and other things.

We bought at the same company here.
http://www.engineersupply.com/cst-berger-electronic-lcd-dial-in-horizontal-vertical-self-leveling-interior-exterior-rotary-laser-57-algrpkg.aspx


Now the reason I stepped up to this laser over another LM800 is that this laser has the LCD readout so you can adjust the slope and other things. The LM800 does not have a digital readout and you have to measure it and use the remote control to tilt the head. Not a big problem, just set a hub at 100' and then tilt with the remote and measure it.


Over all I have been very happy with the CST lasers. They are just as accurate and less than half the price.

Also the CST's are made by the same company that makes the David White, and Stanley lasers. But for some reason you pay a little more for a David White that is basically the same model.

[Squizzy246B]

Thank you very much. Not a brand I am familiar with so I'll go have a look.

[Orchard Ex]

We have 3 rotary lasers now. And I have rented or been loaned Topcons, Leicas, and newer than what we have Spectra Precisions.

We own:

Spectra Precision L600, basic rotary laser with 2000' range, 1/16th at 100'

CST Berger LM800, dual slope laser with 2000' range, 1/16th at 100'

CST Berger ALGR, dual slope laser with 2800' range, 1/16th at 100'


I bought the CST LM800 a year or two ago when I needed a laser while we had to wait for parts for our Spectra L600, The repair shop loaned me a Leica Rugby 100LR for a couple of weeks.


Here is where I bought the CST LM800
http://www.engineersupply.com/cst-berger-lasermark-electronic-self-leveling-dual-slope-rotary-laser-complete-package-57-lm800pkg.aspx


I bought this since the specs were good and equal to a Leica, Topcon, etc. for less than half the price of the others. And came with all the extras, tripod, rod, and othe things. This laser has been great and has been run side by side with the Leica, and a couple of other lasers, and is just as accurate.


Last year I bought the CST ALGR. I needed another laser with a slope and stepped up a few more dollars for this one. Came in a kit with all the goodies like the LM800, tripod, rod, and other things.

We bought at the same company here.
http://www.engineersupply.com/cst-berger-electronic-lcd-dial-in-horizontal-vertical-self-leveling-interior-exterior-rotary-laser-57-algrpkg.aspx


Now the reason I stepped up to this laser over another LM800 is that this laser has the LCD readout so you can adjust the slope and other things. The LM800 does not have a digital readout and you have to measure it and use the remote control to tilt the head. Not a big problem, just set a hub at 100' and then tilt with the remote and measure it.


Over all I have been very happy with the CST lasers. They are just as accurate and less than half the price.

Also the CST's are made by the same company that makes the David White, and Stanley lasers. But for some reason you pay a little more for a David White that is basically the same model.

Glad to hear you like the CST's. I was looking at those 2 models. Was the dial in slope feature worth the extra cost in your opinion?
I bought the basic CST years ago and it has given great service. I would like to get a new self leveling/slope laser soon though.

[Kgmz]

The slope feature is definitely worth it if you have a use for it. And the CST's with dual slope are still less than half the price of some of the other guys single slope models.

We have a Apache Bullseye laser receiver that we use for our equipment, with magnetic mounts. I have cut roads with our dozers, slap on the bullseye, set the laser for the slope and go. Most roads will have some slope so the water will drain in a certain direction to the basins.

Another time our pipe laser decide to not work one day while we were setting some ductile pipe for the catch basins. Got out the CST and set it behind the first basin, set the slope for the pipe, and finished the day. Not as easy as a pipe laser, but we were able to finish the section.

[KSSS]

The slope feature is definitely worth it if you have a use for it. And the CST's with dual slope are still less than half the price of some of the other guys single slope models.

We have a Apache Bullseye laser receiver that we use for our equipment, with magnetic mounts. I have cut roads with our dozers, slap on the bullseye, set the laser for the slope and go. Most roads will have some slope so the water will drain in a certain direction to the basins.

Another time our pipe laser decide to not work one day while we were setting some ductile pipe for the catch basins. Got out the CST and set it behind the first basin, set the slope for the pipe, and finished the day. Not as easy as a pipe laser, but we were able to finish the section.


I have two Topcons 1 a dual plane laser and the other a flat plane. I just bought this year a Spectra Precision single slope laser. The Spectra has some nice features. After running Topcon for 15 years I am still a little partial to them, but after getting sideways with the Topcon dealer over BS repair charges I went to CAT and bought the Spectra. So far so good. Hopefully it holds up like the Topcons have.


I have have two Bullseye Plus 5 receivers. Great piece of gear. More than pays for itself in a month by not having to have some shoot grade or getting in and out of the machine and having to shoot it yourself.

[DigDug]

I've had 4-5 Topcons and they always charge bigtime to repair them . The last five years I have had Spectra precision with good luck and inexpensive maintenance.

[Rookie]

How do you like the Spectra Laser? I was looking into buying one and wanted some real feedback from someone who has used one? Any tips are appreciated!

[Rookie]

Did you notice big improvements in production and efficiency when you started using grade lasers? Are they easy to learn?

thanks

[Squizzy246B]

Did you notice big improvements in production and efficiency when you started using grade lasers? Are they easy to learn?

thanks

I think some people perceive that its difficult, but the operation of the laser is no more difficult than reading a ruler and doing some simple math. Its just a fast accurate way of measuring levels.

The biggest gain with lasers is the speed and ease. At quotation time I can be dealing with real number in 5 minutes....not relying on a 10 year old topo survey.

[mouse]

so, what did you buy squizzy?

[mouse]

kgmz, nowhere in the specs can i find what sort of grade the ALGR will achieve. do you know?

[Squizzy246B]

so, what did you buy squizzy?

A new tape measure mouse...can't afford anything else.

[Kgmz]

kgmz, nowhere in the specs can i find what sort of grade the ALGR will achieve. do you know?

Both of our CST's can only do up to a 10% slope on one or both axis while some of the lasers costing 3 times more can go up to a 25% slope on one axis and 15% on both axis.

But for us up to 10% is fine as we mainly use them for road rough ins and grading, and sometimes as backup for pipe.

[Laser]

I have a basic model David White site Laser that has been a terriffic piece of kit. I'm looking to get another so I can keep the DW in my truck for quoting and estimating while the guys are working on site.

The usual suspects emerge, Topcon, Rugby Leica etc. Whats the thoughts on a 300 yard basic self levelling site laser. I only use the gradients settings a few time s a year. Being somewhat weather resistant is a necessity.

I might add that the accuracy of the unit has to be spot on...we work to tolerance of an 1/8th of an inch and less at times, although this is not usually at major distances.

The Topcon RL-H3C is a cheap reliable unit. $895 List

[Hendrik]

Having used a basic rotary laser leveler for a while now I am getting a bit tired of setting the thing up and getting it level.
I am thinking about getting myself a self leveling one so I don't have to spend half the day making sure the laser is straight.
Are the self levelers worth the extra money and how well do they work?
There are some fancy ones out there with remote control:eek:
http://www.survey-oz.com/rotary-fre202.html
This one is not too pricey when you consider this is what I have at the moment
http://www.justtools.com.au/prod3637.htm

[Colorado Digger]

we have 2 topcons that were brand new and both came out of level. we kept having busts so we put one againte the other and vice versas and nither were doing very well. the egl is older but works well. after the last round of adjustments the topcons hace been fine but the dealer did try to charge for calibration within 1 year of purchase

[Hendrik]

Well I am going to bite the bullet soon and upgrade my laser level.
I am going the whole hog and get a dial in grade one. Whilst most of the work I do is flat levels there is some grade work and the other consideration is to expand my knowledge and skills. Also I have just bought a machine receiver off ebay for 300 bucks and thus need a auto laser level. The basic manual level that I have at the moment is not up to the task, not much point having a receiver on the dipper arm but having to jump off the machine to make sure the laser is level.
Now there are some cheapies on ebay such as this one for 1300 Oz beans
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/AUTO-SELF-LEVELLING-LASER-LEVEL-3-AXIS-DUAL-GRADE_W0QQitemZ370286336004QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_B usiness_Industrial_Construction_Industrial_Equipme nt?hash=item5636c91804
however the question is how well built are they, can they be repaired, can they be serviced or are they throw away junk?
I would prefer to buy a brand name unit but obviously they are gonna cost more.
Unfortunatley for some reason the prices are a bit higher in Oz and most US based suppliers won't ship outside the States.
For instance
http://www.engineersupply.com/cst-berger-electronic-lcd-dial-in-horizontal-vertical-self-leveling-interior-exterior-rotary-laser-57-algrpkg.aspx
versus
http://www.levellaser.com.au/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=18
However I suppose buying laser level locally has the advantage of backup and support.

[Kgmz]

Don't buy that one on Ebay. First they don't list the specs, and after a web search I could not find anything on that laser except a couple of Ebay pages.

Who makes it? What are the specs? Where do you get service for it? And what is with that scope on top of it.

[jca57jd]

The best laser that I have used to this day is AGL lasers. Not many people have hurd of them probably but they are defanetly worth looking into before purchasing. They are expensive units but well worth the money. I was luckey and picked a eagl 2000 up on sale for 799. I bought mine from a company called duncan parnels surveying supply located in charlotte nc. I bought it back in july but they had it on sale cause they wear over stocked. Look them up and give them a call! they sell all the mjor brands and i have yet to find any place to beat ther prices on the internet or else wear.
AGL website
http://www.agl-lasers.com/pdf/AGL%20EAGL%201-2-3%20brochure%2009.pdf
http://www.agl-lasers.com/elt/elt.htm

[Squizzy246B]

I have been using auto-level site lasers from these guys for years:
http://www.precisionlasers.com.au/index.php/products/category/general_construction_lasers

The best thing has been the service, annual calibration reminders mailed out, repairs have been cheap (a grano worker ran over my laser:mad:) and they always have a spare for hire. Mine is an old David White and I now have the Rugby 100. I think the Rugby 50 is very good value if you don't do slopes.

[Hendrik]

Who makes it? What are the specs? Where do you get service for it? And what is with that scope on top of it.
The scope is for when you are working near the beach;)

[Hendrik]

I have been using auto-level site lasers from these guys for years:
http://www.precisionlasers.com.au/index.php/products/category/general_construction_lasers

The best thing has been the service, annual calibration reminders mailed out, repairs have been cheap (a grano worker ran over my laser:mad:) and they always have a spare for hire. Mine is an old David White and I now have the Rugby 100. I think the Rugby 50 is very good value if you don't do slopes.
The Leicas have a good reputation and there is a 55 on stealbay for 1500 bucks, although designed for interior work it is weather proof and has a manual slope feature
Or for the same price there is a Topcon RL-H3C
I doubt that I will be doing dual slope work in the foreseeable future and a single slope machine will do. I do trenches for stormwater pipes now and again and it would be handy to just set the level up and go.
How does this manual slope thingy work? Do you level the machine and then tilt it to the desired percentage?
I guess it is a matter of getting some quotes and doing the math.

[Hendrik]

Don't buy that one on Ebay. First they don't list the specs, and after a web search I could not find anything on that laser except a couple of Ebay pages.

Who makes it? What are the specs? Where do you get service for it? And what is with that scope on top of it.
It appears that laser is made in different colours and goes by other names
http://www.cmiindustries.com.au/pro2000g.html
However they are built in a big factory in China somewhere.

[Kgmz]

That CMI laser is more money but has half the accuracy and range of the CST in the link you posted earlier.

I never really use the dual slope much, but use the single slope a lot. I have also used my lasers when our pipe laser quit and had to got to the shop for repair. Basically just set it at the end of the pipe and set the slope I needed for the pipe and just used the rod on top of the pipe.

How to set the slope:

For our LM800 which does not have a digital readout lcd screen. I first set it to level automatically. Then figure what the height difference will be for a given slope, 1.5% slope in 100 feet height 1.5 feet higher at the other end. Then use the remote control until I get that difference.

With our ALGR its easy, just use the remote or the buttons on the laser and set it to 1.5% on the screen.

So a LCD screen model is the way to go.

You will find that the ALGR has a lot of interesting features. One is lay down mode, you attach the laser to the tripod or even on a floor on its side. I have used it this way to shoot a straight line over rolling terrain to set up fence posts over a distance of 660 feet. Also in laydown mode and using the plumb beam which comes out the top of of the laser, you can square up a slap, floor etc. since the top beam and the rotating beam will be 90 degrees to each other. Another feature is sweep mode and spot mode. I haven't really used it this way yet but could see where it could be useful. I have played with it in these modes to see how it works, and you use the remote and can control where the beam goes and can stop it in one spot and move it slightly left or right to get it dialed in to where you want it. The LM800 also has all these features.

[stock]

LUFKIN




• Bright clear visible red beam.
• Horizontal or vertical rotation, Vertical fixed plumbing beam, vertical or horizontal 90º beams.
• 4 rotating speeds.
• Low battery warning indication.
• Robust, water resistant construction.
• Levelling bubbles internally mounted for accuracy & stability.
• Rugged, high impact housing.
• Laser can be set up horizontally or vertically on the ground without the need for tripods.
• Accuracy: 3mm in 15m (1/8" in 100ft).



I thought 15m was 49ft ergo it should be 1/4" in 100ft.

[Hendrik]

That CMI laser is more money but has half the accuracy and range of the CST in the link you posted earlier.

I never really use the dual slope much, but use the single slope a lot. I have also used my lasers when our pipe laser quit and had to got to the shop for repair. Basically just set it at the end of the pipe and set the slope I needed for the pipe and just used the rod on top of the pipe.

How to set the slope:

For our LM800 which does not have a digital readout lcd screen. I first set it to level automatically. Then figure what the height difference will be for a given slope, 1.5% slope in 100 feet height 1.5 feet higher at the other end. Then use the remote control until I get that difference.

With our ALGR its easy, just use the remote or the buttons on the laser and set it to 1.5% on the screen.

So a LCD screen model is the way to go.

OK lets summarize what's out there:
1. the basic manual leveling type with no slope feature
2. the basic auto self leveling type without slope feature
3. auto self leveling with manual slope feature
4. auto self leveling with dial in grade control
5. auto self leveling with dual slope
So the problem is that I have champagne taste but a beer budget, would love number 5 but the budget will only stretch to number 3 in the brand name range.
I suppose one way to look at it is to say that 90% of my work is level and 10% is slope/pipe work, thus the time spend in setting up a manual grade is not that big a deal and if I find that the ratio changes I can always upgrade my laser level at a later date.
The one big consideration I do have is expanding my skills/capabilities in regards to what I can do. I have never worked with dual grades but would like to know how to do it. I suppose that is like a mechanic who works on domestic cars wanting to be able to work on a Ferrari. However the finances are tight due to some unexpected costs and the dual grade level might have to wait unless I take a punt on those Chinese cheapies on fleabay.
Anyway I feel I am getting closer to getting the right machine for my current needs and situation.

[Kgmz]

I just can't believe the prices for lasers down there. Is the shipping that much. Our dollars are fairly close in value, within 10%.

On the another board I post at, ContractorTalk.com. There is a guy there that also sells CST lasers and other products, and he is a little cheaper than Engineer Supply. Don't know if he can ship to Australia.

Here is link to thread where we were talking about lasers, and he has his website link there. Name is Aiken Colon.

http://www.contractortalk.com/f40/all-one-laser-needed-66853/

His website:
http://www.aikencolon.com/cst-berger-57-algrpkg-electonic-lcd-lial-in-self-leveling-rotary-laser




Do try and get a name brand. I would be worried about the chinese lasers on Ebay. I am not saying that chinese is bad, they can be good as long as it is a recognized name. The Bosch lasers are made in China, they got started in lasers when they bought the RoboToolz laser company which is based in Hong Kong. Bosch also bought CST/David White, more info about this at the link at the other board.

But about CST and David White, they are the same company and have been for years. There are quite a few CST and David White models that are basically the same. They might be a little different on the outside, but are exactly the same on the inside.

So with the CST/David White info, I looked on Ebay Au and found a David White 3175 which is basically the same laser as the CST ALGR. Both have dual slope, same specs, and the important LCD digital display. The price is $1395 US or $1503 AU, just don't know what the shipping would be and this is coming from a US company.


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/David-White-AutoLaser-3175-Dual-Grade-Split-Beam-Laser_W0QQitemZ280401565518QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item41493c574e

[Kgmz]

Some info for you on the ALGR and 3175.



3175 Brochure

http://server.iad.liveperson.net/hc/s-44183334/cmd/kbresource/kb-1608587759976800492/view_document!PAGETYPE?sq=3175&sc=118&sf=101113&st=706978&documentid=172022&action=view

ALGR Brochure

http://server.iad.liveperson.net/hc/s-44183334/cmd/kbresource/kb-1608587759976800492/view_document!PAGETYPE?sq=ALGR&sc=118&sf=101113&sg=0&st=745936&documentid=232218&action=view


3175 manual

http://server.iad.liveperson.net/hc/s-44183334/cmd/kbresource/kb-1608587759976800492/view_document!PAGETYPE?sq=3175&sc=118&sf=101113&sg=0&st=348629&documentid=223836&action=view

ALGR Manual

http://server.iad.liveperson.net/hc/s-44183334/cmd/kbresource/kb-1608587759976800492/view_document!PAGETYPE?sq=algr&sc=118&sf=101113&sg=1&st=315655&documentid=342300&action=view

[J_Deere]

I have owned a lot of Topcon Lasers. The biggest reason I keep replacing them is because they keep getting stolen! :mad: I currently own a dual-slope, three single slope and one level only model. The only repairs where due to accidental damage.

[Hendrik]

Well I bit the bullet and blew the budget and bought a brand new second hand Hilti PR 25 off ebay, cost was AU$1400, a bit more than I wanted to spend but it is a quality machine made in Germany. Could have bought a no name Chinese one for half the price but..........
http://www.hilti.com.au/holau/modules/prcat/prca_navigation.jsp?OID=-11863
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270496789606&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:AU:1123
Unfortunately it did not come with a staff clamp but I should be able to get one from Hilti and can use my old one in the mean time.
Anyway it looks to be the ducks guts and I love just pushing a button and the thing works, no more bubbles for this fella:D

[Cal]

Awesome looking piece

[7120]

Anyone used the Futura LT-710 ? I am looking for a slope laser also and am confused with all the options. The Rugbys seem to be nice but are pricey.

[Kgmz]

Have never heard of Futtura lasers.

And yes the Leica's are pricey.

Thats why I bought CST Bergers. If you go back to my first post in this thread there is a link to a CST ALGR dual slope laser with all the goodies, tripod, rod, V mount, remote control, etc. for less than half the price of the Futtura and the same or better specs.



What are you confused about?

[7120]

CST ALGR seems to be a nice laser. Looks to be quality with budget in mind and a nice bunch of goodies. I am new to this type of equipment. I plan to build grassed waterways on some of our farms this summer. I need to check that 10% slope is enough. (I havent seen plans for every system yet) I am planning to run a bullseye 5 also and use for double checking fall of new ditches. I have read that all brands of lasers will run bullseye. Have you used one with yours?

I guess the confusion comes from looking at so many. Self inflicted sort of but I want to make the right choice.

Thanks for the Link!

[Kgmz]

Yes we have a Bullseye 3+ that we use with our lasers.

If you need more than 10% slope then that will really cost you. If I remember right the Leica 300SG or something like that will go up to a 25% slope in single slope mode and 15% in dual slope mode but it costs around $5,000. And I think the 270SG will go up to 15% single slope only for a price of around $3000.

Other than slope percentage the CST has the same accuracy and range as these Leica's.

Also if you really look at the specs, on these higher slope lasers the accuracy falls way off after a 10% slope.



Edited model of lasers.